is this the american way?
05/28/2009
the fact that we have to even have a discussion as to whether or not waterboarding is torture makes me sad. isn’t it evident that physically making a human being fear for their life is torture? if it isn’t evident to you, then you’re either not being truthful with yourself, or you feel that we have the right to tread human beings in this way. either way you’d be wrong.
i’ve heard every excuse imaginable from the talking heads on tv, the internet, and even family. not one of them is going to sway my opinion on this matter. i’m going to stick with fox news anchor shepherd smith on this issue:
we’re the united states. we don’t torture. we should be holding the moral high ground. these people want to do us harm. they want us dead, and will stop at nothing to do so, and yet i still hold this position. they are just as human as you or me or anyone else.
the argument that the people we’re torturing aren’t covered by geneva convention guidelines is also an absolute copout. it does not matter that these prisoners are terrorists that are not part of a state army. calling them enemy combatants does not automatically take away their human rights. i don’t care how twisted or evil the prisoner is. i don’t care where they are from or what ideals they represent. we are the united states of america. the united states is the leader of the free world. we must take the high ground. we must not torture. ever. for any reason.
there”s even the question of the usefulness of torture. does it result in actionable intel? does everyone talk eventually when put under duress? i’m no expert, i’m a human rights advocate, but the fact that this issue is as cloudy as it is says to me that it shouldn’t be done anyway.
look, i understand that these people want to kill us all. i really do. i understand that its a bit hypocritical to say i’m a human rights proponent while wearing nike shoes. the reality is this: we can’t fight all of the human rights related issues at once. but we can take the stand on issues like torture. something that simple policy changes can affect not only our pride in ourselves as americans, but our reputation in the rest of the world.
there has to be a better way to collect intelligence than treating people in this way. i’m not going to profess to know the answers to how we should go about it…i’m just an average american. a blogger, information technology professional, father, husband, brother…patriot. i was raised to expect great things from my country and the great people that make up it’s populous. no where in my portrait of americana does torture fit in. we are america. we can do better.
05/28/2009 at 10:31 am
The problem is that there are two arguments going on in parallel. One is the legality of what was done. The other is the morality of what was done.
In the former (legality) argument, both the question of whether waterboarding is torture and the status of detainees under the Geneva Convention are both key points.
In the latter (morality) argument, these things are irrelevant, as you rightly pointed out.
But you see what is immoral isn’t always legal and what is legal isn’t always moral.
05/28/2009 at 10:34 am
Oh I agree 100% with your point. Sad that it even has to be discussed though.
05/28/2009 at 11:21 am
I suppose that we shouldn’t have found out about the LA bomb plot then. Glad my family wouldn’t have been there.
I think there is a definite difference between what we have done under “enhanced interrogations” and torture. I don’t think that scaring someone or making them uncomfortable by depriving them of sleep or making them stand up for prolonged periods of time rises to the definition of torture. I also don’t think that what we do to our own troops should be considered torture. Let’s face it, we’re not hammering fingers, breaking jaws, or branding here. That is torture, and we don’t do it.
Like I said when we were talking about it this weekend. We waterboarded exactly 3 people out of the hundreds that have been taken into custody. We did so when we had credible evidence (that turned out to be true, btw) that something was amiss and they knew details that could save lives. Under those circumstances, I think we should dunk em. Not break their knees or bloody their noses, but if it takes a little discomfort of scaring the shit out of them with no real danger or injury, physical or mental, short or long term (as is the case with waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc), I say do it. Someones family would have been killed by those bombs.